I think you nailed the descriptions of the personalities, but I cannot in good conscience recommend this movie to anyone who seriously follows ATP-WTA matches. The tennis portions were not believable and I didn't find any real redeemable qualities in the stuck-in- adolescent development of the men. Mostly unmemorable scenes.
On a different note, I love your writing, especially comments like "... being on a lifelong mission to eradicate all tennis puns from the culture the moment tennis somehow becomes relevant." Your sense of humor really comes through, even when you're doing Tennis Channel commentary.
The community of diehard tennis fans appreciates your intellect and analysis, Please stay writing here, and possibly do a quasi-nonfictional account of behind the scenes of the WTA.
Turns out they had Brad Gilbert as tech. consultant (!) So I guess they just ignored him at various points. To me (Ive only seen trailers), the main problem is the guys : They don’t look capable of winning *any* tennis match, let alone a pro one. They point up the difference between looking like a pro athlete and having a personal trainer.
Challengers to me is really two movies. The first movie, about the relationship between the three characters, is why its doing so well at the box office against all odds. I think, and Andrea covered this well, that the basic arc of the three of them is well done. I mean, its not exactly The Unbearable Lightness of Being but its not aiming for that, either.
But for me, after the last tennis movie I saw, King Richard, the second "movie," in Challengers which is, I guess, a tennis movie, well, that suffers from not having one Andrea Petkovic on board as script advisor. I don't know how movies are made technically, but I found the "cgi the moving ball in later" technique to be obvious as fake to all tennis players, although, again, this isn't really a tennis movie. Maybe its hard to get full on "tennis stunt doubles" who look enough like the actors to hit balls. But anyway, that was done well enough.
I wonder if Andrea agrees that she would have corrected the following obvious, easy, corrections.
1. I know the director wanted one shot where every other spectator follows the ball side to side and Tashi does not, but come on, no tennis coach sits and watches a match at the netpost. You would not place a players box at any net post. It would work in the script if Tashi was at one end, and then can have, as coaches do, interactions with players as they change ends.
2. It was unbelievable, and unnecessary, that the top US girls junior and the top two US boys juniors have never even heard of each other prior to the finals of the US Open juniors. Never met up in a hotel room, yes, but that would have been an easy correction.
3. Actual pros and their coaches don't take a little ball picker upper thingie on to a tournament court. What actually happens, with the coach standing by the player as the player hits with a practice partner would have worked just as well.
4. But so much for nits, the last two for me were the biggest. First, Patrick the player is said to have been on tour for thirteen or whatever years straight, and is in a challenger. Nothing odd about that, but what is odd is his financial status is portrayed as a step up from a homeless guy. For dramatic tension, the wisp of his wealthy family is in there. But as a character, he's the "loser" of the three and he's hardly a loser as a tennis player.
5. Second, the suggestion that Art is sort of an untalented grinder who Tashi coaches into a MULTIPLE GRAND SLAM SINGLES CHAMPION MULTI MILLIONAIRE WITH ASTON MARTIN ENDORSEMENTS but yet is lacking in depth and "excitement" compared to Patrick, and most importantly, is lacking in drive (are you effing kidding me?) as compared to Tashi is completely unbelievable. I am sure many non tennis fans didn't even notice this, but it would have been an easy fix. A more deep fix, I think, would have been for Tashi to have been coaching not only Art but other players. Or maybe a tennis manager, then, instead of the equally ridiculous line "if you don't win tomorrow I am going to leave you" it could have been the completely believable but equally dramatic "after this tournament maybe I shouldn't also be your manager." A professional split with a hint at an emotional split would have done the same job dramatically.
Also, the end is intentionally ambiguous, but its not helped by being the most unrealistic tennis point of the entire movie. Ugh.
Well said!!! :) Triple exclamation point. Anyway, still waiting for someone to make “A Handfull of Summers” into a movie. Yes, the exact opposite theme of Challengers but the essence of high level tennis. The essence being we all have to retire sooner or later.
I should also say, as if the first post wasn’t long enough, that it was just inches from being a great film. Those inches were just the details here and there that were off. Did you notice, that in the one tournament scene that very accurately had posters of all the prior winners in the hallway leading from locker room to center court? Including one of Art between Rodrick and Isner? Except the picture has Art playing left handed. All they needed was Andrea on set every day.
OK went to see it at the cinema and I loved it, so fun. I also feel like reading your pieces over the last few weeks gave me a little bit of insight into the characters. Also, when Tashi hits the ball towards the camera with such force I literally ducked every time - wondering if you had the same response? Probably not ha! PS lol about the legs
Hi Andrea! If you haven't already read it, I recommend Abraham Verghese's, The Tennis Partner, as an addition to your reading list. Can't wait for next week's Finite Jest. Thing that makes me happy--my cat doesn't have cancer. Thing that makes me unhappy--waiting a week for the next Finite Jest.
Another piece of art, thank you Andrea! You can now confess being the writer of the script. Your words here deeply describe the essence within all storylines. Fantastic that you are already planning the sequel :) !
The implicit sex scenes work as a metaphor to represent the soul of the sport we love. Tennis: the ultimate, personal fistfight where there is no visible contact as your opponent is always out of reach.
Awesome. I wasn't going to watch the movie so you saved the trouble with your excellent synopsis. The trailer so way too cheesy. Meanwhile the Australian book is interesting. Slow reading, yes. I speed read - so I know exactly what you are saying, savoring the text instead of rocket blasting through the content.
I like the take on the movie revolving more about the theme of desire than of sex. I loved watching the movie but was kind of baffled by the end (like a lot of my own tennis matches).
I had that same thought! I love the idea Andrea lays out for a sequel...although the daughter/mom/grandma dynamic was only a tiny part of this movie, I thought it added an interesting layer to the class subplot. I suppose developing that would be even more unsexy than no sex sex scenes (am I the only one disappointed that the churros scene didn't at all live up to the hype?? I thought the banana chomp during the match was a lot hotter...😂) Anyway, I was thoroughly entertained by the film and agree that the direction, writing and production were top notch.
Petko! I love you so I’m not going to stop reading you. But you’re trying way too hard here! This isn’t even a B movie, it’s a C movie. There is nothing here except the (somewhat) shiny surface. AThere are no explorations of any issues here that haven’t been done more deeply and honestly by soap operas. The emotional lives here are about as believable as the idea that Zendaya is actually a tennis player. Please! This movie is about as satisfying and nutritious as a bag of popcorn - except the bag of popcorn lasts longer!
i understand that you didn‘t like the film but luca guadagnino is one of our best living filmmakers we have and justin kuritzkes was a fantastic playwright before he wrote the script for challengers. playwrights do nothing else BUT to think about their characters all day. no need for love or even like but a little more respect for their work would be appreciated.
I loved to read your perspective on this movie in the Guardian and here. I didn't enjoy the film at all. Zendaya's two facial expressions got to me and I would have walked out if it wasn't for my friend who kept me in my seat. Bless him for ignoring my fidgeting and squirming for the last 20mins where the slow motion and camera angles drove me crazythrough sand.
For me, I prefer to see Zendaya walking through sand dunes, take drugs with her partying friend or be spiderman's girlfriend ;-) I do however applaud her dedication to prepare for the role. I guess everyone has seen the clip where she is mirroring the moves of a tennis player. I think she translated that well into the movie and it didn't look too cheesy - and that scene with the injury was just way too real!
As a professional filmmaker and a working screenwriter, I loved Challengers. Firstly, because I absolutely adore Luca Guadagnino's cinematic vision. His direction is simple, subtle, precise, thus, actors understand his view better. I really recommend watching his other works, especially the ones that were made in early 00s. He's literally a magician.
I've just found about this whole app and that one of my favorite former players is here, posting incredibly written texts. Thank you, Andrea!
Very late to the party, but alas, it is what it is. I didn't see it until a few day ago.
A few observations and notes.
1) Art = Federer, Patrick = Nadal. Just on visual stylistics, right? Art with the 1HBH and the collared shirt. Patrick with the sleeveless T, plus the tic (the back scratch serve), plus definitely more sweating.
2) Art also equals Fed because he is an artful player, and more pleasing to the eye with that 1HBH. Patrick contains the word "trick" -- and let's face it, he is one tricky mofo. He tricks Art in the sauna, he tricks Tashi into spitting on him and then exchanging spit (and other bodily fluids, we assume) with him. You're absolutely right, young Prince Charles steals the movie. Without question, he is the strongest actor of the trio.
3) For a movie that has a whole lot of tennis, it's funny -- it didn't feel like it. The movie easily could've been about any other sport, or chess (though with less sweating, of course, though probably more churros), or drag racing, or day trading. The tennis was inescapably present, and yet in the end, it felt inert. The odd camera angles, including the 360 degree spinning for no reason, and the crazy first-person perspective (for a second, I thought I was watching a first-person shooter)...in a way, it felt almost disrespectful? I don't know. Even after a few days of stewing on it, I still don't quite know. It just might be that I'm old and crotchety.
I still await the perfect tennis movie to be made...someday!
I think you nailed the descriptions of the personalities, but I cannot in good conscience recommend this movie to anyone who seriously follows ATP-WTA matches. The tennis portions were not believable and I didn't find any real redeemable qualities in the stuck-in- adolescent development of the men. Mostly unmemorable scenes.
On a different note, I love your writing, especially comments like "... being on a lifelong mission to eradicate all tennis puns from the culture the moment tennis somehow becomes relevant." Your sense of humor really comes through, even when you're doing Tennis Channel commentary.
The community of diehard tennis fans appreciates your intellect and analysis, Please stay writing here, and possibly do a quasi-nonfictional account of behind the scenes of the WTA.
Lorrie Drogin
Pasadena, CA
Turns out they had Brad Gilbert as tech. consultant (!) So I guess they just ignored him at various points. To me (Ive only seen trailers), the main problem is the guys : They don’t look capable of winning *any* tennis match, let alone a pro one. They point up the difference between looking like a pro athlete and having a personal trainer.
Challengers to me is really two movies. The first movie, about the relationship between the three characters, is why its doing so well at the box office against all odds. I think, and Andrea covered this well, that the basic arc of the three of them is well done. I mean, its not exactly The Unbearable Lightness of Being but its not aiming for that, either.
But for me, after the last tennis movie I saw, King Richard, the second "movie," in Challengers which is, I guess, a tennis movie, well, that suffers from not having one Andrea Petkovic on board as script advisor. I don't know how movies are made technically, but I found the "cgi the moving ball in later" technique to be obvious as fake to all tennis players, although, again, this isn't really a tennis movie. Maybe its hard to get full on "tennis stunt doubles" who look enough like the actors to hit balls. But anyway, that was done well enough.
I wonder if Andrea agrees that she would have corrected the following obvious, easy, corrections.
1. I know the director wanted one shot where every other spectator follows the ball side to side and Tashi does not, but come on, no tennis coach sits and watches a match at the netpost. You would not place a players box at any net post. It would work in the script if Tashi was at one end, and then can have, as coaches do, interactions with players as they change ends.
2. It was unbelievable, and unnecessary, that the top US girls junior and the top two US boys juniors have never even heard of each other prior to the finals of the US Open juniors. Never met up in a hotel room, yes, but that would have been an easy correction.
3. Actual pros and their coaches don't take a little ball picker upper thingie on to a tournament court. What actually happens, with the coach standing by the player as the player hits with a practice partner would have worked just as well.
4. But so much for nits, the last two for me were the biggest. First, Patrick the player is said to have been on tour for thirteen or whatever years straight, and is in a challenger. Nothing odd about that, but what is odd is his financial status is portrayed as a step up from a homeless guy. For dramatic tension, the wisp of his wealthy family is in there. But as a character, he's the "loser" of the three and he's hardly a loser as a tennis player.
5. Second, the suggestion that Art is sort of an untalented grinder who Tashi coaches into a MULTIPLE GRAND SLAM SINGLES CHAMPION MULTI MILLIONAIRE WITH ASTON MARTIN ENDORSEMENTS but yet is lacking in depth and "excitement" compared to Patrick, and most importantly, is lacking in drive (are you effing kidding me?) as compared to Tashi is completely unbelievable. I am sure many non tennis fans didn't even notice this, but it would have been an easy fix. A more deep fix, I think, would have been for Tashi to have been coaching not only Art but other players. Or maybe a tennis manager, then, instead of the equally ridiculous line "if you don't win tomorrow I am going to leave you" it could have been the completely believable but equally dramatic "after this tournament maybe I shouldn't also be your manager." A professional split with a hint at an emotional split would have done the same job dramatically.
Also, the end is intentionally ambiguous, but its not helped by being the most unrealistic tennis point of the entire movie. Ugh.
never let the truth get in the way of a good story 😂😂
Well said!!! :) Triple exclamation point. Anyway, still waiting for someone to make “A Handfull of Summers” into a movie. Yes, the exact opposite theme of Challengers but the essence of high level tennis. The essence being we all have to retire sooner or later.
I should also say, as if the first post wasn’t long enough, that it was just inches from being a great film. Those inches were just the details here and there that were off. Did you notice, that in the one tournament scene that very accurately had posters of all the prior winners in the hallway leading from locker room to center court? Including one of Art between Rodrick and Isner? Except the picture has Art playing left handed. All they needed was Andrea on set every day.
Hello Andrea,
Sex may be about power, but power is about sex. It is a Möbius strip.
OK went to see it at the cinema and I loved it, so fun. I also feel like reading your pieces over the last few weeks gave me a little bit of insight into the characters. Also, when Tashi hits the ball towards the camera with such force I literally ducked every time - wondering if you had the same response? Probably not ha! PS lol about the legs
Hi Andrea! If you haven't already read it, I recommend Abraham Verghese's, The Tennis Partner, as an addition to your reading list. Can't wait for next week's Finite Jest. Thing that makes me happy--my cat doesn't have cancer. Thing that makes me unhappy--waiting a week for the next Finite Jest.
glad your cat is ok 🙏🏻
Another piece of art, thank you Andrea! You can now confess being the writer of the script. Your words here deeply describe the essence within all storylines. Fantastic that you are already planning the sequel :) !
The implicit sex scenes work as a metaphor to represent the soul of the sport we love. Tennis: the ultimate, personal fistfight where there is no visible contact as your opponent is always out of reach.
Awesome. I wasn't going to watch the movie so you saved the trouble with your excellent synopsis. The trailer so way too cheesy. Meanwhile the Australian book is interesting. Slow reading, yes. I speed read - so I know exactly what you are saying, savoring the text instead of rocket blasting through the content.
I like the take on the movie revolving more about the theme of desire than of sex. I loved watching the movie but was kind of baffled by the end (like a lot of my own tennis matches).
Absolutely agree! But as much as I want to see your Challengers 2 I have a hunch that Tashi should not be coaching her daughter :) https://theuncoachables.substack.com/p/coaching-ugly?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true
Look forward to seeing it now, thanks and will hope for some kind of review of the book you're reading when you are finished?
Also in challengers 2 should be a “who’s the daddy?” storyline. Atlanta was 8 years ago and lily looked around 7.....
I had that same thought! I love the idea Andrea lays out for a sequel...although the daughter/mom/grandma dynamic was only a tiny part of this movie, I thought it added an interesting layer to the class subplot. I suppose developing that would be even more unsexy than no sex sex scenes (am I the only one disappointed that the churros scene didn't at all live up to the hype?? I thought the banana chomp during the match was a lot hotter...😂) Anyway, I was thoroughly entertained by the film and agree that the direction, writing and production were top notch.
I look forward to your posts and I'm never disappointed.
Petko! I love you so I’m not going to stop reading you. But you’re trying way too hard here! This isn’t even a B movie, it’s a C movie. There is nothing here except the (somewhat) shiny surface. AThere are no explorations of any issues here that haven’t been done more deeply and honestly by soap operas. The emotional lives here are about as believable as the idea that Zendaya is actually a tennis player. Please! This movie is about as satisfying and nutritious as a bag of popcorn - except the bag of popcorn lasts longer!
i understand that you didn‘t like the film but luca guadagnino is one of our best living filmmakers we have and justin kuritzkes was a fantastic playwright before he wrote the script for challengers. playwrights do nothing else BUT to think about their characters all day. no need for love or even like but a little more respect for their work would be appreciated.
I loved to read your perspective on this movie in the Guardian and here. I didn't enjoy the film at all. Zendaya's two facial expressions got to me and I would have walked out if it wasn't for my friend who kept me in my seat. Bless him for ignoring my fidgeting and squirming for the last 20mins where the slow motion and camera angles drove me crazythrough sand.
For me, I prefer to see Zendaya walking through sand dunes, take drugs with her partying friend or be spiderman's girlfriend ;-) I do however applaud her dedication to prepare for the role. I guess everyone has seen the clip where she is mirroring the moves of a tennis player. I think she translated that well into the movie and it didn't look too cheesy - and that scene with the injury was just way too real!
As a professional filmmaker and a working screenwriter, I loved Challengers. Firstly, because I absolutely adore Luca Guadagnino's cinematic vision. His direction is simple, subtle, precise, thus, actors understand his view better. I really recommend watching his other works, especially the ones that were made in early 00s. He's literally a magician.
I've just found about this whole app and that one of my favorite former players is here, posting incredibly written texts. Thank you, Andrea!
Very late to the party, but alas, it is what it is. I didn't see it until a few day ago.
A few observations and notes.
1) Art = Federer, Patrick = Nadal. Just on visual stylistics, right? Art with the 1HBH and the collared shirt. Patrick with the sleeveless T, plus the tic (the back scratch serve), plus definitely more sweating.
2) Art also equals Fed because he is an artful player, and more pleasing to the eye with that 1HBH. Patrick contains the word "trick" -- and let's face it, he is one tricky mofo. He tricks Art in the sauna, he tricks Tashi into spitting on him and then exchanging spit (and other bodily fluids, we assume) with him. You're absolutely right, young Prince Charles steals the movie. Without question, he is the strongest actor of the trio.
3) For a movie that has a whole lot of tennis, it's funny -- it didn't feel like it. The movie easily could've been about any other sport, or chess (though with less sweating, of course, though probably more churros), or drag racing, or day trading. The tennis was inescapably present, and yet in the end, it felt inert. The odd camera angles, including the 360 degree spinning for no reason, and the crazy first-person perspective (for a second, I thought I was watching a first-person shooter)...in a way, it felt almost disrespectful? I don't know. Even after a few days of stewing on it, I still don't quite know. It just might be that I'm old and crotchety.
I still await the perfect tennis movie to be made...someday!